How do you view this coming together of the underground music community and climate activism?  

Henry: I think the underground music community can have a big part to play in climate activism, raising awareness and leading the way in innovative solutions for event management. Global music can really help educate listeners about different cultures, the history of different groups and how music played a role in shaping today’s world through activism and protest. The climate crisis can, and should, play a part in the music industry created today, detailing the impacts faced by people, listeners, and consumers around the world, and help to change perceptions and connect the dots between what people listen to and the story behind where and how that music has been made.

TJ: Music has the power to change perceptions and connect dots, which I think is fundamental in the climate movement because for the past 20 years we’ve had mostly numbers, alarming headlines, and people at the top playing ball with our future. Sometimes it is hard to digest these numbers, to put it in context or to really comprehend the severity, resulting in climate anxiety, or even worse climate denial. But what the underground music community can provide is unity, a community, a safe zone where you’re empowered to stand up and do what is right for what you believe in. Music moves us and just like climate change it doesn't abide by any borders or languages, it’s universal and to fight some of the biggest challenges that face humanity, music is the key which connects humanity.  

What are your goals, with this particular show and other current collaborations you'd like to mention? I ask this with particular regard to how music can highlight the human aspect of the climate struggle. For instance the disadvantage of the global south, and poorer communities on the front line of the climate fight?

Henry: In Esa’s AWEH-NESS Radio show, we wanted to highlight our global approach to the work we do, supporting governments with their climate action. We touched on the disparity and challenges we’ve experienced, but also the diversity and inspiration we’ve faced from working and interacting with people in the climate sector across the world. We will continue to hold those accountable for their commitments and lack of progress, and ultimately push government and business leaders to make the systemic changes that are required to truly meet the goals of the Paris Agreement. Through this opportunity and platform, we wanted to combine passions of ours to show how music can act as an inspiration to fight the injustices facing the world today. We want to give a voice to those that are most disadvantaged and on the frontline of the crisis and to those leading from the front to tackle climate change.   TJ: During my studies, I used to work with Esa on a part-time basis and although we were friends before, working with him really gave me a deeper insight into some of the motivations behind his work. I very quickly learned that being South African is intrinsically linked to both our pursuits but just in different outputs. Growing up so far from home, sometimes I would experience a disconnect with my land, my culture and identity but meeting Esa changed that.

His advocation for working with artists from home and exploration of music from around the world gave me an opportunity to reconnect with the energy, the abundant cultures and especially the voices from home. I think some of the issues in the music industry are significant with some of the issues experienced in the climate space. Whether it is those at the top, taking advantage and exploiting artists, or the uncomfortable term of world music which got tossed around, to chuck any music from any other region than the UK or USA in a bucket, to sell a generalisation - which only adds to a narrative of separation, an othering through a Westernised lens. These unfair means and narratives pull us away from the most important thing which is working together, truly understanding the needs of everyone and ensuring that the voices of those who are already being impacted, are being heard. We need diversity of voices, cultures and identities being included in the conversations, awareness of those who are most vulnerable and be wary of grouped terms such as Global South being thrown around, with no true connection to how and why that matters. The best opportunity for a Just Transition, inclusivity will be key. 

How can music highlight and unite communities in a globalised struggle?

TJ: Music has always played such a vital role in uniting communities, whether it’s been the blues, created at a time where racial segregation and slave trade was prevalent in the United States, to electronic and house music taking a whole new form in the 80s and 90’s within the LGTBQ+ communities or in my hometown Cape Town. Music from over the water, such as Bob Marley or Rodriguez uniting communities during the period of Apartheid - in all these periods of heartbreakingly oppressive forms of governance, music was a safe space, where you can’t express the fear, pain or struggles in words. Music was the outlet and the adhesion between you and the rest of the world.

Henry: I think what is fascinating about listening to music from around the world is how it can have such a connection with the people. Music can break boundaries and cultures and you can hear different sounds that mean something of real importance to the communities where it originated. But then equally, through our globalised world and the history of trade, slave routes, and migration, you can hear how these sounds have travelled and are interpreted by others in faraway places, bringing new people together to dance, celebrate, and remember. 

What work needs to be done within the music industry to bolster the effectiveness of music as activism?

Henry: There is no difference from the work we do with governments from key players in the music industry. Long term commitments and insufficient changes are not enough to save the world from catastrophic climate change. We need leaders across the world to stand up and make credible plans to make the transformational change that is required. We highlighted on Esa’s AWEH-NESS Radio show the work that Massive Attack have been leading with the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research, to develop a roadmap for the UK music industry to tackle the climate crisis. This is an excellent start and showcases the complexity of the problem, yet also many of the solutions. And so, actors from the music industry should, and need to, stand up and take control of their actions, join the discussion, and seek help to support the global fight.

 TJ: The roadmap developed by Massive Attack & the Tyndall Centre gives a comprehensive insight and acknowledgment to some of the carbon intensive processes which are involved in the music industry and practical advice of what changes can be made. Some of which included travel; artists considering less intensive modes of transport; encouraging better planning ahead of touring so that gigs can line up in close proximity rather than having to zig zag across countries; considering plug and play venues, allowing artists to travel with a reduced volume of equipment. A Lot more is discussed, and I would urge artists, agencies, event organisers and other actors within the industry to read it and get involved in the discussion, and most importantly seek help if it’s needed.

Unfortunately, there hasn’t been much guidance from governments, so it’s up to the industry and artists to take charge themselves, either by paving the way or utilising their platform to be an agency for change. Other organisations who can support artists or event organisers in making more informed, sustainable decisions are Julie’s Bicycle, a non-for-profit mobilising arts and culture to take action on climate change, offering services such as consultancy and toolkits, another non-for-profit creating waves of change is REVERB, through partnering with musicians, festivals and venues, they help green these high scale events and engage fans to take action, they also provide comprehensive programs to reduce concert and tour footprints.  

What changes have you seen in recent times? I’m thinking about initiatives like No Music On A Dead Planet, and increased awareness towards sustainability from independent labels and festivals.

Henry: The biggest changes I’ve seen are at festivals, taking on a few visible steps and raising awareness of some of the impacts that these events have. This includes no selling of plastic items on site, offering solely vegetarian food, or encouraging public transport. It’s good, but as we’ve seen from the Massive Attack and Tyndall Centre report, there’s more that can be done right now.

TJ: Taking a broader perspective, I think the pandemic has served to set a pause on things, a pause to the old way of doing things and perhaps an opportunity to reset. In this time, civilian movements have been able to galvanise through online networks, from organising protests remotely during Black Lives Matter, to barricading roads in Extinction Rebellion, or whether its youths across the world mobilising the school strikes - the biggest changes I have seen, is our capacity to come together against all odds. The campaign No Music On A Dead Planet, run by the grass-root collective Music Declares Emergency, emerged from exactly that, a ripple effect of the work done by Extinction Rebellion and saw the need for a space where those in the music industry could come together in the fight against climate change. They put pressure on governments and encourage people to acknowledge the injustice in this climate emergency and have successfully had actors from across the industry sign up and hold them to account. When we come together, we have power, and through power we can put pressure on governments to address what matters. 

Gilles Peterson at Radio Muge (Worldwide Festival Sète)

Worldwide FM Chat